Warty Goblin is back. I hope you didn't miss me overmuch.
No, this does not have to do with the DLC. That's annoying, but not lethal. I'm not going to buy DA:O. I referred to it earlier as a Witcher wannabe, and I think there's a lot of truth to that. Not perhaps in the sense that Bioware looked at the Witcher, and decided to copy it, but it seems to be aiming for the same gritty, dark fantasy feel. I just don't think Bioware has the talent to pull it off.
The first problem is that Bioware insists on making you play a super important person tasked with saving the world. That's usually the point where my brain checks into the Cliche Hotel and gets the Three Week Deal on a luxery suite. This is not to say that you can't have good games based around this concept, but unless your name is J.R.R. Tolkien, it's probably not going to make me do any deep thinking.
The Witcher's Geralt is certainly well known, and a bit super human, but he's not tasked with saving the world. That alone buys a lot of my respect. Instead, while Geralt certainly has goals, none of them are as large and all consuming as Saving Everything. This both makes the side quests seem like more reasonable ways to spend time, and roots him as a member of the world. Saving a world almost always pulls me out of it, the job is so large, the stakes so high they could be used to justify nearly anything. It also automatically renders all the characters either well meaning and helpful, well meaning and obnoxious, or some combination of ignorant and downright malign in an insane laughter sort of way. People who oppose you with worldsized stakes don't just occupy rival points of view, they are actively and totally evil. This does nothing to engage me with the material.
The second problem is that you are tasked with saving the world from a bunch of really ugly, semi-humanoid monsters. This is boring. They are by construction beings I can kill without remorse, anybody who sides with them is automatically just as bad. It in short is another method of polarizing the world into a manachian wet dream of black and white, and I don't like it.
This is not to say that you cannot get away with inhuman monsters. The Witcher has plenty of those. They are not however the real focus of the story, but rather simple facts of life. You don't go to the lake at night because the drowners will get you, just like hanging out in a gully after a large rainstorm is likely to get you drowned. CD Project realized that mindless monsters bent on indescriminate murder are boring, and assigns them to the proper role of background radiation. They pop up every now and again, you kill them and collect the reward. The real enemies of interest are human, and figuring out what they are doing, and why they are doing it is a lot of the joy of the game. Nor is it even a forgone conclusion that they are wrong. Bioware puts the inhuman monsters front and center. Anybody who sides with the speciescidal monsterous horde is by construction either a fool or hopelessly malignant. CD Project's seperation of the two is a very savvy move, and one of the reasons I think they are fundamentally better developers than Bioware.
The third reason is the use of deception. I have never, ever been decieved in a Bioware game. Everybody is either telling the truth because they understand that I'm the world's last best hope for a happy ending, or else obviously lying through their teeth. This further polarizes the world, and I don't like it. But deception, I think is key to making a dark, gritty sort of world. A place where everybody's intent is fundamentally judgeable at a glance is not a place where you have to worry overmuch, and it keeps me from fully engaging with it.
I didn't pay enough attention in one or two sections of the Witcher, and as a result I got played like a fiddle for pretty much the entire second act. That, more than anything else made me buy into the Witcher's world as a place where people actually had their own motivations, and were capable of carrying them out. It also means that you really have to pay attention, and even sometimes that isn't enough. At one point I ended up performing a quest for one of the most despicable characters I have ever encountered in a game, but he was competant enough to conceal his socially frowned upon and unacceptable dietary habits. Thus when I was helping him he gave no indication of his tastes. Only later did I realize what he really was. The game in short realized that other people besides the player were capable, and that trust was something of which you should be a jealous guardian.
The fourth is graphics design. Bioware has never, in any of its games, made a really, truly good looking game world. They might check boxes, but the landscapes alway feel somehow empty and sterile, and the characters tend to move like animatronic ducks. They are, to me at least, things I will look because they are gateways to the story, but I have no fondness for them. Mass Effect was better this way, because Bioware does know how to direct a cutscene, and they had the budget to make the Unreal Engine look good, but their self coded efforts fail miserably, and also tend to run like animatronic ducks. Simply put, there are other worlds I find more attractive, so all other things being equal, I'd rather spend my time there.
The fifth is combat. I really do not like party control RPGs. They're too big to make me really latch on to one character, and too small to make me flex any more than the most rudimentory of tactical muscles. Their interfaces also usually seem like a beta release of the version of Powerpoint used in Hell. On top of that, the combat in DA:O looks, from trailers hideously fake. It is 2009, we can do better than a couple of guys in impractical armor standing next to each other and whacking away like uncordinated lumberjacks, each 'hit' accompanied by a pint of blood spraying in all directsion, until at last one combatant or the other's health bar empties and they keel over. The Total War games have better looking combat than this, and they put hundreds of units on screen at a time. A game with perhaps a dozen has no excuse.
And Bioware does provide some more graphically interesting special attacks, like an ogre picking up a dude and bashing him. But if anything, this makes the combat appear even more stilted and fake. If a twenty foot tall beast with teeth like a Ginsu Bargain Pack picks up a person, I personally feel that the individual should be looking for a new career in the pancake and toothpick industries because he should be flattened and then consumed. Having him get back up, sans a bit of their health bar simply takes the remains of my suspension of disbelief and chews them up like that ogre should have done. Finishing moves, they should finish a combat people. It's not that hard, indeed it is why they are called finishing moves. Plus, there's the fetishistic obsession with gallons of fake looking blood spraying everywhere. It was cheesy when Gears of War did it, but Gears of War was at least consistantly cheesy. In a game I'm supposed to take seriously, every character acting like a plasma pinata is simply stupid.
Thus I'm skipping Dragon Age: Origins. I've got enough of a backlog, and there's enough interesting looking titles coming up, that the loss will not be keenly felt. Anyway, there was that leaked Witcher 2 video, that'll sustain me just fine.
Thursday, October 8, 2009
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8 comments:
Wow, this is an interesting confrontation. Because i actually felt that the Witcher was a lesser version of Bioware's games. The Witcher had the set pieces for a dark, gritty and intelligently run game, but it just couldn't quite fit the concept together. The world is dark certainly, but my main character can still sleep with well over 100 women without any real commitment or effort, i can still fight of hundreds of bad guys without a problem, and while the story line, at least as i got into, was dark and more indepth, it didn't really hammer home. In bioware games, the writing is really the greatest asset, especially when it comes to dialogue. I really identify with the various characters and there actions, especially in Jade Empire and baldur's gate. In the witcher i...didn't really feel for anybody. The dialogue could be clever, espically with the dwarves, but it didn't feel immersive. Planscape torment beats them both, but bioware gets closer. In the witcher, i made the language french so i could find more empathy with the people. Bioware feels more impersive, and while it is graphically inferior, i don't have the Witcher's WoW styled combat system. Now the witcher isn't bad, but it lacks the sort of personality that came to Bioware games, and by extension planescape. So i am buying dragon ages orgins, if i can finish planscape :)
from
EE
I respect your views on the matter through, and i can see what you say. It is very nice that the Witcher makes the conflict very localized and very centralized, through the fact Gerald reminds me of Clint Eastwod is irking, i can see what you mean, espically as a Song of Ice and fire fan. But i feel like bioware is more immersive and detailed
from
EE
Yeah, I can definitely understand liking a Bioware game better. They are, after all, far more comfortable, well polished things, and the voice acting is certainly an improvement.
Where I think they lose out is in flavor. Bioware titles feel like an idealized impression of a world- there always is a Good option, and it always works, you can save everybody and beat the bad guys, who the bad guys are is clear, sex and love are synonemous, you've got a host of friends willing to risk their lives and die for you without any really compelling reason- I'm thinking of Wrex in ME here, he's following me because why? He's a mercenary who I am not paying, and has had one bad experience with the bad guy before.
The Witcher felt, to me, like a snapshot of a really believable world, sharp edges and all. People dislike you because you are different and they hate anything that's different simply out of reflex.
There seldom is a right thing to do, and when there is, I don't have a guarentee it'll work. I'm not playing a hero out of a storybook (which is all that Bioware games have ever made me feel, whether I play good or evil), I'm just a guy doing a job. Like I said earlier, I find the world to simply be a more interesting place
As to the combat well I won't deny that the Witcher's system is hardly spectacular. It does require some thought about positioning, attention to timing and enemy weaknesses and the conservation of offensive momentum. Most enemies also die reasonably quickly, which goes a long way towards making me buy into the system (and indeed the fights against very tough enemies like the Stone Golem are really very weak). It's perhaps a little bit behind that of Mass Effect, but is lightyears ahead of KoTOR or Neverwinter Nights.
What really made the Witcher come alive to me though is the little details. Mechanics like being able to get drunk, trade food to old women for stories, get into fist fights at bars, or in a section that can only be described as both maddening and brilliant, try to win over Shani's landlady. No other game that I've played has the guts to require to win a conversational battle against a ferocious old lady whose opening moves are randomized.
The graphical touches are great as well. The slightly muted yet colorful color palate, the rats, the rainstorms, the warm glow of firelight or the cold light of dawn. It simply looks good, and as un-PC as it is to admit, graphics do make a difference to me.
The thing is, bioware can be formulaic, but they make up for it by
A) Making the formula one that is inherently entertaining. I mean, in Baldur's gat,e the plot is actually quite good on its own right I mean, the various characters you met up with are entertaining and amusing, the world is interesting, the dialogue is fantastic, and the actual NPCs are a good part of the concept. not to mention taht the plot twists actually can be suprising and manage themselves so it doesn't feel cliche.
2) There are options. Baldur's gate allows you to really have alot of leniency to play. Limited obviously, by the time, but within the limitations, i have have alot of options for me. And its actually has a pretty legitimate view of evil. I mean, being evil in BG isn't the best, but at least it makes sense, if not form a mechanical perspective, but from an RPG perspective, evil just means that your selfish and profit driven. Totally legitimate reason to still go after the big bad, it encourages subtle evil. There are just simply put, options. The game is very open ended and incretably thought out in how i can choose my chooses. And by that i mean baldur's gate and jade empire more than neverwinter knights, through i count planscape torment as bioware even if they didn't make it. I also get to make my own character. Gerald, while i can control him, bores me. He is linke clint eastwood, (opposed to yojimbo) and lacks any real charm, which the snarky main character from BG has, or the phisophical nameless one
3) the writing/humor value. In the witcher, i couldn't really conencted with people. Stuff was happening, but i didn't feel like there was anybody who i was close to. Maybe it was because i couldn't make my own character. I actaully felt upset when people died in Bioware games
from
EE
1) As I said, I can see the appeal of Bioware titles- ME2 is high on my list of wanted titles after all. And you're right, they are formulaic, and it is a good formula.
The problem is that I don't think it's a formula that lends itself overly well to doing a darker, more gritty setting and story. Part of what such a setting takes, at least for me, is a sense that I can't fix everything, and let's face it, no Bioware game ever has really stopped you from fixing stuff.
2) Making my own character is not much of a deal to me. I don't generally find class systems in RPGs to be particularly appealing (which is weird, because I do like them in FPS games), and all they really do is change whether my party's spellcaster is me or somebody else. Since I don't like party control RPGs in general anyway, this doesn't do much for me.
Plus, in order to get all those classes and customization in there, I end up playing a person without history, prior friends or anything. Being a tabula rasa can work in some games- Half Life 2 pulls it off by giving Gordon no personality and allowing you to fully project for example- but the degree of choices present in most RPGs just make me feel like I'm playing a half baked person. ME got around this by giving Shepard enough of a personality to begin with, and by keeping the choices limited in scope but consistant in tone to allow me to feel like I was actually playing a character, rather than a crude representation of one.
Geralt one-ups Shepard though by having a set personality from t=0 on. I'm not choosing who I play, as I said above, that seldom really immerses me in a game. Instead I take a character and decide what is the best choice that is consistant with who he actually is. It's like playing the endgame of an RPG, where you've already figured out who your character is, but with more consistant dialog and less stupid stuff to get through first.
I also found I appreciated the relationships in the Witcher more, because I felt they were reasonable depictions of human interaction. A typical major NPC or party member side quest in a Bioware game seems to be go someplace, kill some people from the NPC's past, which gives them Closure and probably a Unique Item. I have never had any of my friends in reality ask me to do this. In the Witcher I throw a party for my friends. My real family does this every year. It is in short an identifiably human action, something that RPGs are desperately short of.
I'll get back to you, but having read your comments on the Dragon age orgin thing, i've been thinking alot. I still disagree, but on alot of things i see where you going. But unlike you, i feel like the Bioware system is the best out there, for writing quality and good characters, but it can be mixed in with a sort of Dark messaih style excitiment. Problem is that DM made me cringe every time somebody opened there mouth, while BG is legitimatly enjoyable to like the characters. And even you would like torment
As for magic being rare, i thinkBioware does well with the common place magic routine, having started in FR, but i do think some day a system shoudl come out where an axe will kill you
Also, having seen the traliors, i don't want to watch cutscenes of battles. You know what i would like as a cut scene? I would like to have a gropu face with some sort of moral dilema. Like, if i made a trailor for PLanscape, i'd show a scene of the nameless one arguing with people about the nature of humaniyt, weather we are essientally good or evil, as the whoel game is hobbess vs. Roushoue. Or an add for BG 1 would be your character seeing a stereotypical orgy of violence, and then awakening with the knowledge that this is what is the god of murder is corrupting him with. Or BBII would be Jon Irenicius just talking. Something other than just combat, which hardly interests me. I liked jade empire, as crappy as the combat was, because it had so much talking
from
EE
Well, the Witcher is a great game and it does some things better than most other RPGs I've seen. That being said, I do think the Witcher had some really awful moments in terms of dialog (at least in the English version). There were also some really stupid plot points that didn't make much sense to include and could have been handled more effectively.
I'm not a huge Bioware fan, since the best RPGs are the 200 hour old school ones like Icewind Dale and Baulder's Gate. None of the modern games have really come close. Mass Effect has great characters, but the game play is lacking and it's shorter than it should be (the very end was flat out absurd).
Dragon Age clearly has cringe worthy dialog. I would have said the voice acting was the issue, but I know the actor's they've picked can act, so that means the dialog (or directing) was the problem. Thankfully, I'll probably be able to turn it off. Of course the game is supposed to take around 130ish hours to complete, which means that making an effective trailer could be impossible.
I'm concerned that the gameplay mechanics aren't going to have the depth of the D20 system, which is part of what made those older game so much better than the modern ones in terms of detail and character creation. I fear we'll get Mass Effect-esque dumbed down mechanics.
Wow, and I figured the comments here would be dead by now.
Well, having read some reviews, most of my fears appear to be false. Of course most reviews are also claiming that Modern Warfare 2 is the best thing since sliced bread, so I'll keep taking them with a grain of salt.
Also I still have not puchased the game, so the below is only based on what I've read and what videos I've seen. GRE registration ate most of my available funds for the semester, so at this point in time a $50 title is right out. I might be able to squeak a couple $10 or even one $30 purchase in there, but that's it.
I will say that I find the choice not to voice the protagonist in DA:O very offputting. I wouldn't mind a game where everybody's dialog is text only, but having everybody else fully voiced and me mute just seems to highlight the main character's already crippling lack of personality.
I'm still unenthused b the idea of saving a fantasy world. Again. I'm really tired of this crap, and it's completely unneccessary to telling a good story. In fact as I've argued above, it might even get in the way of so doing.
I do seem to be revising my opinion of real time pause combat systems though. I'm currently playing Drakensang: The Dark Eye which I had picked up some months before, and enjoying it to a surprising degree. Part of this is because the game's lighting is frankly gorgeous, so I simply want to spend a lot of time looking at it. Also it makes all combat actions in a round occur simultaniously, as opposed to spread out by initiative order. This makes the downtime between attacks much easier to utilize effectively.
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